Something in the world of floating have you stumped?
Show Highlights
There are lots of things you can measure when testing the quality of your water, for sanitation and comfort. Many of which aren’t specifically designed for float tanks. This is kind of an open secret in the industry, but most things simply aren’t accurate because of the incredibly high salinity of float tank solution. And pH seems to be one of them. This can cause float center owners major headaches as it’s often one of the first things that health departments/regulators will want to measure when they come and inspect your place (if they do at all).
Graham and Ashkahn try to break down this mystery of float water and try to break down some theories as to why it might be that float tank water might not have accurate pH readings, regardless of how you measure it.
Listen to Just the Audio
Transcription of this episode… (in case you prefer reading)
Graham: Today’s question for all you listeners is: “The NAFTS says” – By the way that stands for
North American Float Tank Standard.
Ashkahn: Did they write it as an abbreviation in there?
Graham: Yeah, they did write it as an abbreviation. Yeah. Anyway, it says, “We are unaware of any testing device that will accurately measure pH in the float solution.” End of quotes. And the rest of the question is “However, float tank owners claim to be adjusting pH levels. And at least one float tank company sells pH+ and pH-. What gives?“
Ashkahn: What gives?
Graham: Well… it’s a little complicated.
Ashkahn: Yeah. I mean part of the reason I think you hear …
Graham: You can’t see, but I’m pulling out my collar right now.
I mean I think part of the reason you hear inconsistent information about this is because there’s probably inconsistent experiences and knowledge and devices.
Graham: And we’re all just very confused.
Ashkahn: Everybody is really confused. Yeah, I mean so here’s what we know. I mean, is that we haven’t personally found a device, like a testing device manufacturer, tell us specifically will work accurately in the float tank water with pH.
That’s kind of where we’re at. I don’t have that hard confirmation, like a letter from someone who makes the testing device saying they tested it in their lab, and they can confirm that we are, in fact, getting an accurate pH with the device.
Graham: And there may be manufacturers out there who have had conversations like that.
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Or trying to work toward that. It’s just that we haven’t necessarily seen that or had personal experience with them.
Ashkahn: Yeah, so I don’t know. Some manufacturers, maybe they have figured this out, maybe other ones haven’t and just think they have. Like I don’t know. It’s hard to say exactly if someone’s claiming they figured it out what lengths they’ve gone to to actually confirm that. But that’s usually the lengths that I like to go to. I like to get the actual manufacturer of the device to have tested it and, like, on an official stationery with their company letterhead kind of officially saying, “yeah, we’re standing behind this”.
Graham: And this is a funny differentiation. It’s not exactly related to the question, but make sure to get the technical department on the line when you’re talking to manufacturers of testing devices. Because if you end up just on the general line or talking to a salesperson, absolutely they will pretty much tell you what you want to hear. So having a salesperson tell you, “oh sure, it will test pH in the float tank water” is not the confirmation you want. Again yeah, official letterhead, maybe talking to the technical department.
Ashkahn: Yeah, ideally you don’t even want the company to just tell you yes, like ideally, you want them to take a sample of the Epsom salt water and actually use their pH device and some other thing they can use to calibrate or make sure that it is correct.
And that’s really the tough thing when it comes to pH specifically. I think it’s kind of hard. How do you know if you’re getting an accurate pH reading? Because you just have the one pH device that you’re using, and you get a number out of it and, like, if that number is right or wrong when you’re testing it in your float center is not something that you can really determine.
So some of the reasons that if we have suspicion that pH can be kind of inaccurate because of the salt water is: one is we switch pH devices they give us in our center, they give us very different results from one another. And the devices seem to be consistent with themselves.
Graham: Yeah. So the readings that we have are very much consistent. And the thing that we’re worried about is validity. Right. And improper readings could be one of the two. You could use the same testing equipment and it’s shooting back 6.8 this time and 7.8 this time and 8.9 this time, and it’s all the same water. That would be very inconsistent, but that’s not necessarily what we’re seeing.
I mean if you take a reading of the pH and 6.8 and you take another one, chances are it’s going to be 6.8 again if you’re just taking it five minutes later or in that range.
Ashkahn: And if you have a pH+, most likely it’s going to go up, and if you have a pH-, then that number’s going to go down.
So the question is: Is that number right in the first place?
Graham: Yeah. When we’re getting 6.8, for example, how do we know that that wasn’t 7.5? And the next time, although we’re getting 6.8, it’s still at that 7.5 level.
Ashkahn: Yeah. So that’s one thing that’s been suspicious to us. Like we bought a different pH tester and, all of a sudden, our levels were very different than the ones we were testing with that different device.
The other thing that gives me some suspicion, when we did that test with the NSF, the study of just distilled water versus Epsom salt water, they took kind of some basic testing levels on their test. So basically they took distilled water, and they measured things, and one of the things they measured was pH. And then they added Epsom salt to that water and re-measured everything. And, theoretically, that should have been the only difference. And the pH jumped quite a bit between those two, between the distilled water and the Epsom salt water. And so that raises a few questions, right?
There could be a couple of possibilities as to why that’s different. One, I guess they just started with different pH water for those two samples. But I kind of doubt that’s what happened. I think they were probably using water that was very consistent with itself.
Graham: They could have just lied and thrown darts at a board and never actually tested anything. Yeah, I don’t think that’s likely either, so …
Ashkahn: So really the two big possibilities is that the Epsom salt itself is actually affecting the pH, right? So at the point they added the Epsom salt in that was what was changing the pH of the water.
Graham: And you put that over some kind of alien mind control conspiracy?
Ashkahn: All right. There are two and a half possibilities. And I don’t know, from talking to Epsom salt manufacturers, it doesn’t, at least, seem like the Epsom salt should be making a big impact on pH.
That’s what they told us, and maybe that differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. At least that’s what PQ told us.
Graham: Yeah, at least from PQ, they said their Epsom salt is actually chemically composed to be neutral. So it’s actually supposed to be seven pH, so if you’re adding in the PQ salt, it shouldn’t actually affect the pH levels. Theoretically.
Ashkahn: If you’re lower, it will get it closer to seven, I guess. Not that it won’t affect it.
Graham: Right. That’s a good point. For sure.
Ashkahn: And so the other possibility if the salt’s not affecting it, the other possibility is that the reader is not giving you the same result that it was beforehand, right? So that’s kind of the two different steps of logic.
And we weren’t really able to get a clear answer from the NSF about that, and I kind of came out of it with the understanding that they didn’t think their pH was the most accurate thing in the world.
Graham: And that they didn’t want to give us an official statement that said that. They kind of don’t want to admit that their tests aren’t necessarily up to measuring things in our salt water, so they kind of did their own pulling of collars when we were having that conversation.
Ashkahn: I feel like they also alluded the fact they probably could get much more accurate pH reading with some much more expensive and sophisticated equipment.
So, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility, but it does make me question getting any old pH reader and trusting it without actually very much validating with the company that makes that that it’s not being influenced by the salt that’s in the water.
Graham: Yeah, pretty much anything off the shelf I’d be highly skeptical of. I mean I certainly don’t know of anything unmodified that you can just buy from a testing website or a testing manufacturer that I, personally, would have confidence works to get accurate pH in the salt solution. That includes test strips, digital readers, refractometer kind of readers. Like I don’t think any of them are just shooting back the accurate levels that we have.
Ashkahn: Uh-huh
Graham: But again, personal opinion, we have heard from other people in the industry, especially manufacturers, who are the ones that have done really deep research into this area that they do feel more confident than we do in pH readings.
Ashkahn: Right, but …
Graham: That might be through modification or customization, or …
Ashkahn: Yeah. To me, I’m really searching for that actual verification from the company.
Hopefully, maybe someone out there has that. We just haven’t seen it.
Graham: Yeah. Although I’d like people to send us every single piece of float information. It would solve all the mysteries I personally have.For some reason people don’t just do that by default.
So, if you’re out there listening to this and you have a letter from a pH testing manufacturer, shoot it over our way. Or alkalinity or any letter from a manufacturer that’s tested accurately in the float tanks would be awesome. Awesome resource to have.
Ashkahn: Definitely.
Graham: I think that’s it.
Ashkahn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it
Graham: Any more confounding questions you have, send them our way as well at Floattanksolutions.com/podcast.
Recent Podcast Episodes
HIPAA Compliance – DSP 330
The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) required the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to develop regulations protecting the privacy and security of certain health information. This means that most medical information recorded by healthcare providers has to be stored based on a certain standard of security.
This is only just now becoming an issue in the float industry as centers are starting to accept insurance and medical referrals. However, this is still extremely rare. If this is something that may affect you personally, definitely research additional resources to make sure you’re in compliance.
Getting High (on air) in Float Tanks – DSP 329
Graham and Ashkahn light one up to honestly answer what they think about people coming into float centers high.
The guys share their experiences having Float On share a wall with a dispensary and the number of problems (or lack thereof) that it has caused over the course of many years.
Sit back, grab some munchies, and enjoy the ride with these guys.
What you Need to Know about UV – DSP 328
Have you ever wondered why the UV light on a float tank needs to be replaced so often? If the light is glowing, doesn’t that mean it’s working?
Ashkahn and Graham tackle everything you need to know about UV light, how it works in a float tank, and most importantly, how it can go wrong. This episode is dense with information useful for anyone who uses UV in their float center.
What’s going on with the MAHC? – DSP 327
The Model Aquatic Health Code is a document released by the CDC and has made waves throughout the float industry as this year it included a section on the ideal health department code for float centers as well as pools and spas. Some folks are worried about this because it may mean more rigid and unruly regulations in certain areas.
It’s been a few months since its release, so Graham and Ashkahn give an update to how it has impacted the industry and what it means going forward. Also, Ashkahn learns to abuse the show notes.
Logo Copycats – DSP 326
If you’ve ever looked at a collection of logos from various float centers, they can start to look a little similar. How do you avoid this when designing your own float center logo? Is it a big deal?
Graham and Ashkahn dish on logo design, the importance of simplicity, and a not so subtle reminder that the “don’t be an asshole” rule exists for a reason.
Latest Blog Posts
Should I Have One or Multiple Styles of Float Tank?
If you had every model and type of float tank you’d be running the Burj Khalifa of float centers, with an estimated 38 unique float tanks, which include pods, custom open pools, cabins, vertical tanks, and inflatable or portable float devices currently on the market (not even counting old models).
This is all to say that there are a ton of options out there when considering tanks for your center.
Whether you’re opening a two-tank center, or a bajillion-tank center, do you want all the same model, or will you have some variety?
Why ROI Calculators Suck! (or at least why you should use caution)
“What is an ROI calculator?” I hear you asking. “ROI” simply stands for “Return on Investment”. An “ROI Calculator” is just a tool that outlines the cost of something and generates what your anticipated profit will be over a certain length of time. Usually annually.
We should make a distinction between a simple ROI calculator (i.e. a widget built into a website with limited inputs), and a financial plan (complete with P&L, cashflow, and balance sheets). Both are going to try and do the same thing, but one is going to be far more detailed and accurate.
Roughly what we’re going to be talking about is a return on investment for your whole business, but return on investment can (and should) be used for lots of different aspects to your business to help you determine how best to spend your company’s money. Usually, though, that’s going to require a lot of detail that a simple widget can’t provide.
How to compete on price without slashing prices
Let’s say you’re a float tank center and more centers are starting to show up in your town…
Or, maybe you are that other center starting up a town that already has float tanks…
As new centers enter the market, the typical response is to run promotions on daily deal sites, promote large specials, and/or run Facebook Ads selling floats for much less than the usual offerings.
The best case scenario is this price slashing behavior subsides shortly after the neighboring center opens.
But what if it doesn’t? What if an existing competitor decides their new price is even lower?
How do you compete with a price slashing neighbor without competing on price?
Learn a few ways to make price a non issue with your customers…
Float On’s Halloween Spooktacular!
‘Twas briny, and the epsom groves fluttered with salt-bats, a lurking fog floating atop the murky bog. From the dark maw of silence came a guttural groan, an eerie utterance akin to those of monsters. From the depths of darkness, that groan turned into what mortals...
