Something in the world of floating have you stumped?
Show Highlights
There are lots of things you can measure when testing the quality of your water, for sanitation and comfort. Many of which aren’t specifically designed for float tanks. This is kind of an open secret in the industry, but most things simply aren’t accurate because of the incredibly high salinity of float tank solution. And pH seems to be one of them. This can cause float center owners major headaches as it’s often one of the first things that health departments/regulators will want to measure when they come and inspect your place (if they do at all).
Graham and Ashkahn try to break down this mystery of float water and try to break down some theories as to why it might be that float tank water might not have accurate pH readings, regardless of how you measure it.
Listen to Just the Audio
Transcription of this episode… (in case you prefer reading)
Graham: Today’s question for all you listeners is: “The NAFTS says” – By the way that stands for
North American Float Tank Standard.
Ashkahn: Did they write it as an abbreviation in there?
Graham: Yeah, they did write it as an abbreviation. Yeah. Anyway, it says, “We are unaware of any testing device that will accurately measure pH in the float solution.” End of quotes. And the rest of the question is “However, float tank owners claim to be adjusting pH levels. And at least one float tank company sells pH+ and pH-. What gives?“
Ashkahn: What gives?
Graham: Well… it’s a little complicated.
Ashkahn: Yeah. I mean part of the reason I think you hear …
Graham: You can’t see, but I’m pulling out my collar right now.
I mean I think part of the reason you hear inconsistent information about this is because there’s probably inconsistent experiences and knowledge and devices.
Graham: And we’re all just very confused.
Ashkahn: Everybody is really confused. Yeah, I mean so here’s what we know. I mean, is that we haven’t personally found a device, like a testing device manufacturer, tell us specifically will work accurately in the float tank water with pH.
That’s kind of where we’re at. I don’t have that hard confirmation, like a letter from someone who makes the testing device saying they tested it in their lab, and they can confirm that we are, in fact, getting an accurate pH with the device.
Graham: And there may be manufacturers out there who have had conversations like that.
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Or trying to work toward that. It’s just that we haven’t necessarily seen that or had personal experience with them.
Ashkahn: Yeah, so I don’t know. Some manufacturers, maybe they have figured this out, maybe other ones haven’t and just think they have. Like I don’t know. It’s hard to say exactly if someone’s claiming they figured it out what lengths they’ve gone to to actually confirm that. But that’s usually the lengths that I like to go to. I like to get the actual manufacturer of the device to have tested it and, like, on an official stationery with their company letterhead kind of officially saying, “yeah, we’re standing behind this”.
Graham: And this is a funny differentiation. It’s not exactly related to the question, but make sure to get the technical department on the line when you’re talking to manufacturers of testing devices. Because if you end up just on the general line or talking to a salesperson, absolutely they will pretty much tell you what you want to hear. So having a salesperson tell you, “oh sure, it will test pH in the float tank water” is not the confirmation you want. Again yeah, official letterhead, maybe talking to the technical department.
Ashkahn: Yeah, ideally you don’t even want the company to just tell you yes, like ideally, you want them to take a sample of the Epsom salt water and actually use their pH device and some other thing they can use to calibrate or make sure that it is correct.
And that’s really the tough thing when it comes to pH specifically. I think it’s kind of hard. How do you know if you’re getting an accurate pH reading? Because you just have the one pH device that you’re using, and you get a number out of it and, like, if that number is right or wrong when you’re testing it in your float center is not something that you can really determine.
So some of the reasons that if we have suspicion that pH can be kind of inaccurate because of the salt water is: one is we switch pH devices they give us in our center, they give us very different results from one another. And the devices seem to be consistent with themselves.
Graham: Yeah. So the readings that we have are very much consistent. And the thing that we’re worried about is validity. Right. And improper readings could be one of the two. You could use the same testing equipment and it’s shooting back 6.8 this time and 7.8 this time and 8.9 this time, and it’s all the same water. That would be very inconsistent, but that’s not necessarily what we’re seeing.
I mean if you take a reading of the pH and 6.8 and you take another one, chances are it’s going to be 6.8 again if you’re just taking it five minutes later or in that range.
Ashkahn: And if you have a pH+, most likely it’s going to go up, and if you have a pH-, then that number’s going to go down.
So the question is: Is that number right in the first place?
Graham: Yeah. When we’re getting 6.8, for example, how do we know that that wasn’t 7.5? And the next time, although we’re getting 6.8, it’s still at that 7.5 level.
Ashkahn: Yeah. So that’s one thing that’s been suspicious to us. Like we bought a different pH tester and, all of a sudden, our levels were very different than the ones we were testing with that different device.
The other thing that gives me some suspicion, when we did that test with the NSF, the study of just distilled water versus Epsom salt water, they took kind of some basic testing levels on their test. So basically they took distilled water, and they measured things, and one of the things they measured was pH. And then they added Epsom salt to that water and re-measured everything. And, theoretically, that should have been the only difference. And the pH jumped quite a bit between those two, between the distilled water and the Epsom salt water. And so that raises a few questions, right?
There could be a couple of possibilities as to why that’s different. One, I guess they just started with different pH water for those two samples. But I kind of doubt that’s what happened. I think they were probably using water that was very consistent with itself.
Graham: They could have just lied and thrown darts at a board and never actually tested anything. Yeah, I don’t think that’s likely either, so …
Ashkahn: So really the two big possibilities is that the Epsom salt itself is actually affecting the pH, right? So at the point they added the Epsom salt in that was what was changing the pH of the water.
Graham: And you put that over some kind of alien mind control conspiracy?
Ashkahn: All right. There are two and a half possibilities. And I don’t know, from talking to Epsom salt manufacturers, it doesn’t, at least, seem like the Epsom salt should be making a big impact on pH.
That’s what they told us, and maybe that differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. At least that’s what PQ told us.
Graham: Yeah, at least from PQ, they said their Epsom salt is actually chemically composed to be neutral. So it’s actually supposed to be seven pH, so if you’re adding in the PQ salt, it shouldn’t actually affect the pH levels. Theoretically.
Ashkahn: If you’re lower, it will get it closer to seven, I guess. Not that it won’t affect it.
Graham: Right. That’s a good point. For sure.
Ashkahn: And so the other possibility if the salt’s not affecting it, the other possibility is that the reader is not giving you the same result that it was beforehand, right? So that’s kind of the two different steps of logic.
And we weren’t really able to get a clear answer from the NSF about that, and I kind of came out of it with the understanding that they didn’t think their pH was the most accurate thing in the world.
Graham: And that they didn’t want to give us an official statement that said that. They kind of don’t want to admit that their tests aren’t necessarily up to measuring things in our salt water, so they kind of did their own pulling of collars when we were having that conversation.
Ashkahn: I feel like they also alluded the fact they probably could get much more accurate pH reading with some much more expensive and sophisticated equipment.
So, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility, but it does make me question getting any old pH reader and trusting it without actually very much validating with the company that makes that that it’s not being influenced by the salt that’s in the water.
Graham: Yeah, pretty much anything off the shelf I’d be highly skeptical of. I mean I certainly don’t know of anything unmodified that you can just buy from a testing website or a testing manufacturer that I, personally, would have confidence works to get accurate pH in the salt solution. That includes test strips, digital readers, refractometer kind of readers. Like I don’t think any of them are just shooting back the accurate levels that we have.
Ashkahn: Uh-huh
Graham: But again, personal opinion, we have heard from other people in the industry, especially manufacturers, who are the ones that have done really deep research into this area that they do feel more confident than we do in pH readings.
Ashkahn: Right, but …
Graham: That might be through modification or customization, or …
Ashkahn: Yeah. To me, I’m really searching for that actual verification from the company.
Hopefully, maybe someone out there has that. We just haven’t seen it.
Graham: Yeah. Although I’d like people to send us every single piece of float information. It would solve all the mysteries I personally have.For some reason people don’t just do that by default.
So, if you’re out there listening to this and you have a letter from a pH testing manufacturer, shoot it over our way. Or alkalinity or any letter from a manufacturer that’s tested accurately in the float tanks would be awesome. Awesome resource to have.
Ashkahn: Definitely.
Graham: I think that’s it.
Ashkahn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it
Graham: Any more confounding questions you have, send them our way as well at Floattanksolutions.com/podcast.
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Latest Blog Posts
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #28
Home sweet home! After so many months on the road, it was strange being back here in Portland. We were exhausted, excited, and a little travel weary. The first night back, I slept in my own bed for the first time in three months and the world just melted away.
Having travelled across the United States, I’m reminded of how insular Portland is. We are aggressively fixated on keeping things local. Local beer, ketchup, bikes, pet food, pillows, phone cases… it’s part of our charm. We want to reward people for living here and being a part of the community. It’s so pervasive that, after living here for so long, I kind of forgot that Secret Aardvark hot-sauce isn’t available everywhere, and that most cities don’t even recycle, let alone compost.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #27
Our northern neighbor – a sister city, of sorts – Seattle is the largest metropolitan area in the Pacific Northwest. It’s the land of Microsoft and Kurt Cobain, and the culture here embraces both simultaneously. It’s tech business professional in the front and rock n’ roll grunge in the back. This blend creates a perfect storm of high energy business life and high energy nightlife, making relaxation a valuable commodity. Floating helps fill the void left by nightmarish traffic and overcrowded restaurants.
Given that it’s so close to home, the float centers in Seattle are a lot more familiar to us. Our visits here were more like a high school reunion than they were like the first day of school. During some of our visits, we were picking up conversations right where we left them.
The Float Tour Blog Issue #26
Vancouver is the largest metropolitan area in Canada, and third largest on the West Coast. It’s a major hub for international trade, with one of the largest ports in the world, giving it a large migrant population, mainly from Asia, the Middle East, and Australia. It’s also been a long-time home to the Canadian film industry, and has even been nicknamed “North Hollywood.” Dozens of film and television productions from major studios film here every year.
Vancouver is very much an international city. It has large boroughs dedicated to varying cultures, including one of the largest Chinatowns in the world. The society here is more receptive to new ideas, always looking for the next big thing; it’s not surprising that floating has blown up in Vancouver as much as it has.
In the last 3 years, 10 float centers have opened up, most of them being larger 4–6 tank centers. The really interesting thing is how they all opened within the same short amount of time about 1 ½ to 2 years ago, within months of each other.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #25
We finally made it back to the West Coast! We went through the Canadian Rockies and were overwhelmed by the beauty of it all. We drove through hours and hours of winding mountain roads, fertile valleys, and tiny towns so picturesque they looked like movie sets. It was so captivating, in fact, I suspect Graham and Ashkahn may have secretly replaced themselves with robotic doppelgängers to hike throughout Banff.
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