Something in the world of floating have you stumped?
Show Highlights
There are lots of things you can measure when testing the quality of your water, for sanitation and comfort. Many of which aren’t specifically designed for float tanks. This is kind of an open secret in the industry, but most things simply aren’t accurate because of the incredibly high salinity of float tank solution. And pH seems to be one of them. This can cause float center owners major headaches as it’s often one of the first things that health departments/regulators will want to measure when they come and inspect your place (if they do at all).
Graham and Ashkahn try to break down this mystery of float water and try to break down some theories as to why it might be that float tank water might not have accurate pH readings, regardless of how you measure it.
Listen to Just the Audio
Transcription of this episode… (in case you prefer reading)
Graham: Today’s question for all you listeners is: “The NAFTS says” – By the way that stands for
North American Float Tank Standard.
Ashkahn: Did they write it as an abbreviation in there?
Graham: Yeah, they did write it as an abbreviation. Yeah. Anyway, it says, “We are unaware of any testing device that will accurately measure pH in the float solution.” End of quotes. And the rest of the question is “However, float tank owners claim to be adjusting pH levels. And at least one float tank company sells pH+ and pH-. What gives?“
Ashkahn: What gives?
Graham: Well… it’s a little complicated.
Ashkahn: Yeah. I mean part of the reason I think you hear …
Graham: You can’t see, but I’m pulling out my collar right now.
I mean I think part of the reason you hear inconsistent information about this is because there’s probably inconsistent experiences and knowledge and devices.
Graham: And we’re all just very confused.
Ashkahn: Everybody is really confused. Yeah, I mean so here’s what we know. I mean, is that we haven’t personally found a device, like a testing device manufacturer, tell us specifically will work accurately in the float tank water with pH.
That’s kind of where we’re at. I don’t have that hard confirmation, like a letter from someone who makes the testing device saying they tested it in their lab, and they can confirm that we are, in fact, getting an accurate pH with the device.
Graham: And there may be manufacturers out there who have had conversations like that.
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Or trying to work toward that. It’s just that we haven’t necessarily seen that or had personal experience with them.
Ashkahn: Yeah, so I don’t know. Some manufacturers, maybe they have figured this out, maybe other ones haven’t and just think they have. Like I don’t know. It’s hard to say exactly if someone’s claiming they figured it out what lengths they’ve gone to to actually confirm that. But that’s usually the lengths that I like to go to. I like to get the actual manufacturer of the device to have tested it and, like, on an official stationery with their company letterhead kind of officially saying, “yeah, we’re standing behind this”.
Graham: And this is a funny differentiation. It’s not exactly related to the question, but make sure to get the technical department on the line when you’re talking to manufacturers of testing devices. Because if you end up just on the general line or talking to a salesperson, absolutely they will pretty much tell you what you want to hear. So having a salesperson tell you, “oh sure, it will test pH in the float tank water” is not the confirmation you want. Again yeah, official letterhead, maybe talking to the technical department.
Ashkahn: Yeah, ideally you don’t even want the company to just tell you yes, like ideally, you want them to take a sample of the Epsom salt water and actually use their pH device and some other thing they can use to calibrate or make sure that it is correct.
And that’s really the tough thing when it comes to pH specifically. I think it’s kind of hard. How do you know if you’re getting an accurate pH reading? Because you just have the one pH device that you’re using, and you get a number out of it and, like, if that number is right or wrong when you’re testing it in your float center is not something that you can really determine.
So some of the reasons that if we have suspicion that pH can be kind of inaccurate because of the salt water is: one is we switch pH devices they give us in our center, they give us very different results from one another. And the devices seem to be consistent with themselves.
Graham: Yeah. So the readings that we have are very much consistent. And the thing that we’re worried about is validity. Right. And improper readings could be one of the two. You could use the same testing equipment and it’s shooting back 6.8 this time and 7.8 this time and 8.9 this time, and it’s all the same water. That would be very inconsistent, but that’s not necessarily what we’re seeing.
I mean if you take a reading of the pH and 6.8 and you take another one, chances are it’s going to be 6.8 again if you’re just taking it five minutes later or in that range.
Ashkahn: And if you have a pH+, most likely it’s going to go up, and if you have a pH-, then that number’s going to go down.
So the question is: Is that number right in the first place?
Graham: Yeah. When we’re getting 6.8, for example, how do we know that that wasn’t 7.5? And the next time, although we’re getting 6.8, it’s still at that 7.5 level.
Ashkahn: Yeah. So that’s one thing that’s been suspicious to us. Like we bought a different pH tester and, all of a sudden, our levels were very different than the ones we were testing with that different device.
The other thing that gives me some suspicion, when we did that test with the NSF, the study of just distilled water versus Epsom salt water, they took kind of some basic testing levels on their test. So basically they took distilled water, and they measured things, and one of the things they measured was pH. And then they added Epsom salt to that water and re-measured everything. And, theoretically, that should have been the only difference. And the pH jumped quite a bit between those two, between the distilled water and the Epsom salt water. And so that raises a few questions, right?
There could be a couple of possibilities as to why that’s different. One, I guess they just started with different pH water for those two samples. But I kind of doubt that’s what happened. I think they were probably using water that was very consistent with itself.
Graham: They could have just lied and thrown darts at a board and never actually tested anything. Yeah, I don’t think that’s likely either, so …
Ashkahn: So really the two big possibilities is that the Epsom salt itself is actually affecting the pH, right? So at the point they added the Epsom salt in that was what was changing the pH of the water.
Graham: And you put that over some kind of alien mind control conspiracy?
Ashkahn: All right. There are two and a half possibilities. And I don’t know, from talking to Epsom salt manufacturers, it doesn’t, at least, seem like the Epsom salt should be making a big impact on pH.
That’s what they told us, and maybe that differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. At least that’s what PQ told us.
Graham: Yeah, at least from PQ, they said their Epsom salt is actually chemically composed to be neutral. So it’s actually supposed to be seven pH, so if you’re adding in the PQ salt, it shouldn’t actually affect the pH levels. Theoretically.
Ashkahn: If you’re lower, it will get it closer to seven, I guess. Not that it won’t affect it.
Graham: Right. That’s a good point. For sure.
Ashkahn: And so the other possibility if the salt’s not affecting it, the other possibility is that the reader is not giving you the same result that it was beforehand, right? So that’s kind of the two different steps of logic.
And we weren’t really able to get a clear answer from the NSF about that, and I kind of came out of it with the understanding that they didn’t think their pH was the most accurate thing in the world.
Graham: And that they didn’t want to give us an official statement that said that. They kind of don’t want to admit that their tests aren’t necessarily up to measuring things in our salt water, so they kind of did their own pulling of collars when we were having that conversation.
Ashkahn: I feel like they also alluded the fact they probably could get much more accurate pH reading with some much more expensive and sophisticated equipment.
So, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility, but it does make me question getting any old pH reader and trusting it without actually very much validating with the company that makes that that it’s not being influenced by the salt that’s in the water.
Graham: Yeah, pretty much anything off the shelf I’d be highly skeptical of. I mean I certainly don’t know of anything unmodified that you can just buy from a testing website or a testing manufacturer that I, personally, would have confidence works to get accurate pH in the salt solution. That includes test strips, digital readers, refractometer kind of readers. Like I don’t think any of them are just shooting back the accurate levels that we have.
Ashkahn: Uh-huh
Graham: But again, personal opinion, we have heard from other people in the industry, especially manufacturers, who are the ones that have done really deep research into this area that they do feel more confident than we do in pH readings.
Ashkahn: Right, but …
Graham: That might be through modification or customization, or …
Ashkahn: Yeah. To me, I’m really searching for that actual verification from the company.
Hopefully, maybe someone out there has that. We just haven’t seen it.
Graham: Yeah. Although I’d like people to send us every single piece of float information. It would solve all the mysteries I personally have.For some reason people don’t just do that by default.
So, if you’re out there listening to this and you have a letter from a pH testing manufacturer, shoot it over our way. Or alkalinity or any letter from a manufacturer that’s tested accurately in the float tanks would be awesome. Awesome resource to have.
Ashkahn: Definitely.
Graham: I think that’s it.
Ashkahn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it
Graham: Any more confounding questions you have, send them our way as well at Floattanksolutions.com/podcast.
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Latest Blog Posts
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #24
Alberta is often called the Texas of Canada. Part large oil industry, part cattle country.
Don’t Mess With Alberta!
At the base of the Rocky Mountains, replete with an Olympic Stadium, Calgary is a world-class destination for winter sports. The float community developed here similarly to Edmonton – there wasn’t anything nearby except for one or two residential float tanks, and then, in a short period of time, several centers opened all at once. Instead of competing, they’ve decided to work together and have developed one of the tightest knit float communities we’ve seen. They even have monthly Float Dinners, much like we do with the float centers in Portland. They don’t keep meeting minutes, so it’s hard to determine what they talk about at these dinners; my guess would be salt, the effects of salt on various substances, and how salty salt damage can make someone salty.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #23
After Montana, we blazed our way back into Canada. The drive was long, but the scenery was beautiful. We followed the Rockies north, driving up to Edmonton. It’s a bit of a detour but, there are so many float centers in Edmonton, it seemed crazy not to stop by.
The city itself is primarily made up of workers from the oil fields – high risk, high income jobs that fuel the economy. At least until recently. Our visit was right in the middle of the Fort McMurray wildfire which has displaced a lot of the workforce, forcing 100,000 people to leave their homes. Many came to Edmonton, being the nearest metropolitan area to Fort McMurray. Some already split their time between the two cities, living in Edmonton and traveling to Fort McMurray for weeks or months at a time for work.
It’s understood that, in economic hardship, luxury commodities are typically the first thing people cut back on. Surprisingly, this doesn’t seem to be the case for floating. In fact, more people seem to be trying it to help alleviate the stress, many centers even offering free or discounted services to those displaced in an effort to help in a small way.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #22
We’ve got two more stops in Colorado Springs before heading west. It’s a town known for its military base and long history of weapons testing. With such a large military presence, it comes as no surprise that the float center owners here are veterans, themselves.
After that, we shoot across to Salt Lake City. Utah is filled with gorgeous sights, from breathtaking lakes to stunning painted hills. With an international landmark famous for its effects on buoyancy, Salt Lake City should be pretty familiar with the concept of floating. With five different float centers, and the manufacturer of the Zen Tent out there, there could be some cause and effect.
After that, we head up into Idaho and Montana to close out the Central United States portion of our Tour. We’ll follow the Rocky Mountains north, taking in the scenery along the way.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #21
Denver has been home to a vibrant float community for a long time. Some of the earliest commercial centers that started up in the ‘70s and ‘80s were out here. 30 years is a long time, and most of the old centers aren’t around anymore, but there’s a conscious community that has been floating since the old days and they love how much the industry has evolved and grown.
