Learn best practices for starting and running a float center:
  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

Something in the world of floating have you stumped?

  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

Show Highlights

There are lots of things you can measure when testing the quality of your water, for sanitation and comfort. Many of which aren’t specifically designed for float tanks. This is kind of an open secret in the industry, but most things simply aren’t accurate because of the incredibly high salinity of float tank solution. And pH seems to be one of them. This can cause float center owners major headaches as it’s often one of the first things that health departments/regulators will want to measure when they come and inspect your place (if they do at all).

Graham and Ashkahn try to break down this mystery of float water and try to break down some theories as to why it might be that float tank water might not have accurate pH readings, regardless of how you measure it.

Listen to Just the Audio

Transcription of this episode… (in case you prefer reading)

Graham: Today’s question for all you listeners is: “The NAFTS says” – By the way that stands for  

North American Float Tank Standard.

Ashkahn: Did they write it as an abbreviation in there?

Graham: Yeah, they did write it as an abbreviation. Yeah.  Anyway, it says, “We are unaware of any testing device that will accurately measure pH in the float solution.” End of quotes. And the rest of the question is “However, float tank owners claim to be adjusting pH levels. And at least one float tank company sells pH+ and pH-. What gives?

Ashkahn: What gives?

Graham: Well… it’s a little complicated.

Ashkahn: Yeah. I mean part of the reason I think you hear …

Graham: You can’t see, but I’m pulling out my collar right now.

I mean I think part of the reason you hear inconsistent information about this is because there’s probably inconsistent experiences and knowledge and devices.

Graham: And we’re all just very confused.

Ashkahn: Everybody is really confused. Yeah, I mean so here’s what we know. I mean, is that we haven’t personally found a device, like a testing device manufacturer, tell us specifically will work accurately in the float tank water with pH.

That’s kind of where we’re at. I don’t have that hard confirmation, like a letter from someone who makes the testing device saying they tested it in their lab, and they can confirm that we are, in fact, getting an accurate pH with the device.

Graham: And there may be manufacturers out there who have had conversations like that.

Ashkahn: Yeah.

Graham: Or trying to work toward that. It’s just that we haven’t necessarily seen that or had personal experience with them.

Ashkahn: Yeah, so I don’t know. Some manufacturers, maybe they have figured this out, maybe other ones haven’t and just think they have. Like I don’t know. It’s hard to say exactly if someone’s claiming they figured it out what lengths they’ve gone to to actually confirm that. But that’s usually the lengths that I like to go to. I like to get the actual manufacturer of the device to have tested it and, like, on an official stationery with their company letterhead kind of officially saying, “yeah, we’re standing behind this”.

Graham: And this is a funny differentiation. It’s not exactly related to the question, but make sure to get the technical department on the line when you’re talking to manufacturers of testing devices. Because if you end up just on the general line or talking to a salesperson, absolutely they will pretty much tell you what you want to hear. So having a salesperson tell you, “oh sure, it will test pH in the float tank water” is not the confirmation you want. Again yeah, official letterhead, maybe talking to the technical department.

Ashkahn: Yeah, ideally you don’t even want the company to just tell you yes, like ideally, you want them to take a sample of the Epsom salt water and actually use their pH device and some other thing they can use to calibrate or make sure that it is correct.

And that’s really the tough thing when it comes to pH specifically. I think it’s kind of hard. How do you know if you’re getting an accurate pH reading? Because you just have the one pH device that you’re using, and you get a number out of it and, like, if that number is right or wrong when you’re testing it in your float center is not something that you can really determine.

So some of the reasons that if we have suspicion that pH can be kind of inaccurate because of the salt water is: one is we switch pH devices they give us in our center, they give us very different results from one another. And the devices seem to be consistent with themselves.

Graham: Yeah. So the readings that we have are very much consistent. And the thing that we’re worried about is validity. Right. And improper readings could be one of the two. You could use the same testing equipment and it’s shooting back 6.8 this time and 7.8 this time and 8.9 this time, and it’s all the same water. That would be very inconsistent, but that’s not necessarily what we’re seeing.

I mean if you take a reading of the pH and 6.8 and you take another one, chances are it’s going to be 6.8 again if you’re just taking it five minutes later or in that range.

Ashkahn: And if you have a pH+, most likely it’s going to go up, and if you have a pH-, then that number’s going to go down.

So the question is: Is that number right in the first place?

Graham: Yeah. When we’re getting 6.8, for example, how do we know that that wasn’t 7.5? And the next time, although we’re getting 6.8, it’s still at that 7.5 level.

Ashkahn: Yeah. So that’s one thing that’s been suspicious to us. Like we bought a different pH tester and, all of a sudden, our levels were very different than the ones we were testing with that different device.

The other thing that gives me some suspicion, when we did that test with the NSF, the study of just distilled water versus Epsom salt water, they took kind of some basic testing levels on their test. So basically they took distilled water, and they measured things, and one of the things they measured was pH. And then they added Epsom salt to that water and re-measured everything. And, theoretically, that should have been the only difference. And the pH jumped quite a bit between those two, between the distilled water and the Epsom salt water. And so that raises a few questions, right?

There could be a couple of possibilities as to why that’s different. One, I guess they just started with different pH water for those two samples. But I kind of doubt that’s what happened. I think they were probably using water that was very consistent with itself.

Graham: They could have just lied and thrown darts at a board and never actually tested anything. Yeah, I don’t think that’s likely either, so …

Ashkahn: So really the two big possibilities is that the Epsom salt itself is actually affecting the pH, right? So at the point they added the Epsom salt in that was what was changing the pH of the water.

Graham: And you put that over some kind of alien mind control conspiracy?

Ashkahn: All right. There are two and a half possibilities. And I don’t know, from talking to Epsom salt manufacturers, it doesn’t, at least, seem like the Epsom salt should be making a big impact on pH.

That’s what they told us, and maybe that differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. At least that’s what PQ told us.

Graham: Yeah, at least from PQ, they said their Epsom salt is actually chemically composed to be neutral. So it’s actually supposed to be seven pH, so if you’re adding in the PQ salt, it shouldn’t actually affect the pH levels. Theoretically.

Ashkahn: If you’re lower, it will get it closer to seven, I guess. Not that it won’t affect it.

Graham: Right. That’s a good point. For sure.

Ashkahn: And so the other possibility if the salt’s not affecting it, the other possibility is that the reader is not giving you the same result that it was beforehand, right?  So that’s kind of the two different steps of logic.

And we weren’t really able to get a clear answer from the NSF about that, and I kind of came out of it with the understanding that they didn’t think their pH was the most accurate thing in the world.

Graham: And that they didn’t want to give us an official statement that said that. They kind of don’t want to admit that their tests aren’t necessarily up to measuring things in our salt water, so they kind of did their own pulling of collars when we were having that conversation.

Ashkahn: I feel like they also alluded the fact they probably could get much more accurate pH reading with some much more expensive and sophisticated equipment.

So, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility, but it does make me question getting any old pH reader and trusting it without actually very much validating with the company that makes that that it’s not being influenced by the salt that’s in the water.

Graham: Yeah, pretty much anything off the shelf I’d be highly skeptical of. I mean I certainly don’t know of anything unmodified that you can just buy from a testing website or a testing manufacturer that I, personally, would have confidence works to get accurate pH in the salt solution. That includes test strips, digital readers, refractometer kind of readers. Like I don’t think any of them are just shooting back the accurate levels that we have.

Ashkahn: Uh-huh

Graham: But again, personal opinion, we have heard from other people in the industry, especially manufacturers, who are the ones that have done really deep research into this area that they do feel more confident than we do in pH readings.

Ashkahn: Right, but …

Graham: That might be through modification or customization, or …

Ashkahn: Yeah. To me, I’m really searching for that actual verification from the company.

Hopefully, maybe someone out there has that. We just haven’t seen it.

Graham: Yeah. Although I’d like people to send us every single piece of float information. It would solve all the mysteries I personally have.For some reason people don’t just do that by default.

So, if you’re out there listening to this and you have a letter from a pH testing manufacturer, shoot it over our way. Or alkalinity or any letter from a manufacturer that’s tested accurately in the float tanks would be awesome. Awesome resource to have.

Ashkahn: Definitely.

Graham: I think that’s it.

Ashkahn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it

Graham: Any more confounding questions you have, send them our way as well at Floattanksolutions.com/podcast.

Recent Podcast Episodes

How Often Does Float On Party? – DSP 225

Ashkahn and Graham have developed a bit of a reputation over the years within the industry as party animals. Anyone who has met them can confirm this to be true. But how often to the throw parties at Float On? What are good occasions for float center parties and how do you throw one? 

The guys share their party philosophy and offer some nice tips and tricks for throwing a sensory deprivation shindig. 

Is there a “Best” Float Position? – DSP 224

Ashkahn and Graham thoroughly debunk the myth of a “best” float position. The Float On boys explicate their philosophy that there is no right way to float and instead talk about all the different positions they enjoy floating in. They learn more about each other than they expected to in the process. 

How Do you Incentivize Return Floaters without Memberships or Packages? – DSP 222

How many times has a float center owner had a first time floater come out of the tank and said something along the lines of “that was amazing! I need to do this every week!” and then they never see that person again? How do you get them to come back without committing to a membership or a high ticket package of floats? 

Ashkahn and Graham share their thoughts on this exact problems and some of the creative solutions they’ve implemented at Float On to combat it. The key, for them, has been keeping it simple and making it accessible.

How to Schedule Your Float Center During the Slow Season – DSP 221

For most float centers, the summer months drastically change how busy it gets. It seems that zenning out to nothingness is moderately less appealing when there’s a lot of outdoor activities to enjoy. 

Graham and Ashkahn share their thoughts on a reduced schedule. Float On runs 24 hours almost every day throughout the year. so reducing their schedule is typically against their philosophies. They explain some of the reasons people might consider it, what are some good ways to go about it, as well as explain some practices to consider avoiding when cutting hours.

Latest Blog Posts

Float Quarterly – January 2016

Float Quarterly – January 2016

It’s been our pleasure to be actively involved in the float industry for over five years now. In 2016, we’re already on track to have more new centers opening, more press covering floating, and more resources for people just entering our salty world than ever before.

With so much action, we’ve decided to send out brief, quarterly updates on our industry to keep people posted on the all the latest happenings. Welcome to our first installment!

Training to Become a Certified Pool/Spa Operator

Training to Become a Certified Pool/Spa Operator

Each year at the Float Conference, we put on a Certified Pool/Spa Operator (CPO) training course. At first, that might strike you as an odd thing to have as part of a float tank conference. This post will explain what CPO training is and why we think it can be a really useful certification to have on your belt.

Increase Sales by Offering Retail in Your Float Center

Increase Sales by Offering Retail in Your Float Center

On their own, float tanks have a limit to their profits. Retailing has the potential to bring extra money into your shop, but it also requires a lot of work and attention on your part to really be successful at it. At Float On, our retail contributes 6.5% towards our overall sales and 3% of total profit. While this might not seem like a large contribution, depending on your sales, it could end up paying the wages of a whole extra employee.

The Health Department and Float Tanks… How to get Approved!

The Health Department and Float Tanks… How to get Approved!

If you’re working on starting a float center, chances are you’re nervously anticipating having to call the health department. We’ve all heard horror stories of people being asked to follow pool rules that don’t make sense for them, or having to do costly changes to their pump systems.

float tanks not regulatedBelow is our best advice for working with your health department to get your float center approved, but before we dive into that, it’s important to get a bit of an understanding as to how the health department works.