Something in the world of floating have you stumped?
Show Highlights
It’s important to acknowledge that float center owners without a scientific background probably shouldn’t be running experiments on floaters willy nilly. It should also be noted that Graham and Ashkahn aren’t scientists, despite being huge fans of self-experimentation.
There has been a lot of talk recently, however, of float centers collaborating with student researchers to help run experiments, though. Graham and Ashkahn discuss (with a fair amount of levity) what it might take to properly run experiments in a float tank, which they understand is no easy task.
Show Resources
Buy your tickets for the 2018 Float Conference!
Book hotel rooms for the Float Conference
FTS Product – About Float Tanks Guide (Free)
Laureate Institute for Brain Research Float Clinic
Float Conference 2016 – Colleen Wohlrab
Float Conference 2016 – Ricardo Gil-Da-Costa
Listen to Just the Audio
Transcription of this episode… (in case you prefer reading)
Ashkahn: Oh boy.
Graham: Right.
Ashkahn: Welcome everybody.
Graham: Hello, this is the Daily Solutions podcast.
Ashkahn: That’s right. This is Ashkahn.
Graham: I am Graham.
Ashkahn: And quick announcement before we jump into the question. This is very close to the end of our discounted early bird tickets for the Float Conference. Discounts end July 19th, so if you’re coming out to the Float Conference and you don’t have tickets yet, get them. Get them now.
Graham: Yeah, don’t be a late bird.
Ashkahn: Yeah, a late bird.
Graham: They go up by a decent chunk, too, just because this is the point where we have to get everything ordered and get everything straightened away so that it actually becomes a little harder for us after this point to get everything set. So, do us a favor, do yourselves a favor, do the world a favor. Go get your Float Conference tickets.
Ashkahn: Yeah, and if you haven’t gotten your hotel room, July 16th is the cut-off for that as well, in terms of getting them at a discounted price. So, FloatConference.com, or also FloatConference.com/Hotels where you can get hotel information.
Graham: Yep, and make sure to request that you actually bunk specifically with me and Ashkahn, and they’ll put you in the room with us.
Ashkahn: That’s right. Yeah. We will have pillow forts and everything set up for you.
Graham: All right, should we get on to the actual meat of the show?
Ashkahn: Yeah, what’s the question?
Graham: Maybe even some potatoes? So that is a good question in itself.
Ashkahn: Think you can answer it?
Graham: Yeah, I think I can answer it. The question today is, “What equipment should be used for before/after/during scientific tests on floaters? Things like blood pressure monitoring equipment, heart rate monitoring equipment, EEG sensors, etc.”
Ashkahn: Who sent-
Graham: These are all anonymous, I can’t-
Ashkahn: Is it just like a float center sending this in? Or is this some sort of rogue scientist that they are like trying to-
Graham: Or maybe Justin Feinstein.
Ashkahn: This sounds like Justin. He’s been wondering those questions for a while now.
Graham: Yeah, so I guess first of all if you’re thinking about running your own experiments on your paying clients, maybe keep in mind-
Ashkahn: Don’t tell them. Don’t tell your customers. Secret experiments is the way to go.
Graham: That’s right. Don’t tell anyone in fact, because that sort of thing can get you in trouble. The law doesn’t look too kindly on rogue scientists turning around doing experiments on their customers.
Ashkahn: Here’s what you need, you need some electroshock machines, I think is going to be important.
Graham: Car batteries, I think, is what you call them.
Ashkahn: Car batteries.
Graham: Yeah.
Ashkahn: Needles, lots of needles.
Graham: Preferably rusty. And you know probably just a low-fi video camera so you can document everything. Kind of duct tape around the corner of the room-
Ashkahn: Tape their mouths. Otherwise, it’s going to destruct other floaters.
Graham: All right, so there’s kind of two parts to this question. One is unstated, which is should I run experiments on my floaters, I guess. If I’m just a float center. No, is the answer-
Ashkahn: You probably shouldn’t, unless you really know.
Graham: Yeah, this whole-
Ashkahn: If you really know what you’re doing.
Graham: There’re whole procedures you have to go through. You need to figure out how to run experiments. Let’s just assume that this is someone who knows what they’re doing, and is a scientist. They’re getting funded by their college, or they’re a grad student doing research for someone, or something like that. But they have permission to run these experiments, it’s not illicit-
Ashkahn: Consent.
Graham: Yeah, it’s consensual. It’s consensual.
Ashkahn: Okay. All right.
Graham: And legal. That’s still an interesting question because the salt water does break down most of the things that you would want to use to run these experiments.
Ashkahn: Yeah, I mean it’s only until very recently that EEG sensors have been able to really be used well, actually while someone is floating.
Graham: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not until very recently, is that what you mean?
Ashkahn: Yeah, what did I say?
Graham: Until.
Ashkahn: And then we lost the technology. We can’t do it anymore. If only! Yeah, as far as I know Tom Fine did some stuff back in the day where he put an EEG sensor on people’s foreheads and half the time it broke from the saltwater.
Graham: Yeah.
Ashkahn: I know Justin had a hard time getting EEG sensors that would actually keep working under those conditions.
Graham: Yeah, and that was a lot of the collaboration between him and Ricardo Gil-Da-Costa. The cost just came out of this difficulty in finding EEG sensors that could take readings when someone is floating.
Ashkahn: Yeah, so Ricardo runs a company called Neuroverse that actually makes these kind of, I think they describe them as nanotechnology, with sticker things you put on your head. The EEG sensor connects to and actually kinds of wirelessly transmits it, but it also is waterproof. I think it’s what Justin’s been using for the last little bit here to actually get live EEG readings from people while they’re floating.
Graham: And it’s really cool. Ricardo has some good talks from the conference from past years. Of course, Justin can talk about that at length during his talks and show cool pictures of the EEG sensors and stuff like that. But suffice it to say, without going to some pretty extreme lengths, actually getting equipment like EEG readings specifically inside the tank-
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Is not possible even really-
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Or certainly not easy.
Ashkahn: And there’s a talk from I want to say 2016 Float Conference, I think, where Colleen Wohlrab, who works at the Laureate Institute for Branding Research actually does a talk on the equipment they use, and how they found stuff that works in float tanks.
Graham: Yeah, so that’s a-
Ashkahn: That’s a pretty good answer to this question.
Graham: Yeah, go listen to people who know way more than we do-
Ashkahn: Yeah, because we don’t know.
Graham: Is kind of the answer here.
Ashkahn: Here’s what I do know is it seems to be better now than it was before, because there’s also these funny old pictures from Tom Fine and John Turner when they were doing research back in the early 80s-
Graham: Yeah.
Ashkahn: Where they literally had float tanks with holes cut into the side of them so that people could stick their arms out mid-float and they could do blood pressure readings on them.
Graham: Which is super cool. Those are some of my favorite early float history photos. I love them.
Ashkahn: But I gotta imagine it’s a little disrupting to the float, you know?
Graham: And if you want it, they’re in the About Float Tanks guide, too, if you want to check those out if you haven’t already. It’s really good. It’s a good photo. So yeah.
Ashkahn: I think now LIBR has wireless EKG readers and blood pressure cuffs, too, wireless blood pressure cuffs. I think those are the main things that they have on people while they’re in there floating.
Graham: Yeah, and they’ll measure breath rate as well mid-float.
Ashkahn: Mm-hmm, right. With right kind of sensors in the tank itself.
Graham: Yeah, I think they might even measure it with the little buoyancy shift in the water. But don’t hold me to that. I can’t remember exactly how they measure the breath.
Ashkahn: Yeah, clearly we are not the people who should be answering this discussion.
Graham: But breath is something they measure. If you’re not a rogue scientist, or running legitimate science, and you want something to measure breath, it might be a good one.
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: That’s all I’m saying.
Ashkahn: Yeah, I mean for sure. I mean in that news report that came out-
Graham: See? It’s on the news.
Ashkahn: A month ago.
Graham: I know what I’m talking about.
Ashkahn: The guy was talking about one of the things they told him at LIBR when he did his float was that he had two exhalations in a minute or something when he was at his deepest state of relaxation.
Graham: What else? I don’t know, I’d be curious about susceptibility to brainwashing, so anything that you can kind of gather in terms of that sort of data would be great. Ways to kind of sneak in membership pitches mid-float-
Ashkahn: Yeah, subliminal messaging.
Graham: Yeah, yeah. I guess low tone speakers maybe install in there.
Ashkahn: Mm-hmm.
Graham: Okay, we’re straying away from a serious answer again. I can feel it coming on.
Ashkahn: Oh yeah? What tipped you off?
Graham: Giant smile across my face, and talking nothing but nonsense, I guess, was one of the first indicators today.
Ashkahn: Yeah, I mean it’s hard. If you’re talking about actually measuring things while people were floating, it’s pretty hard. That’s why you see a lot of research is pre and post-float.
Graham: Yeah.
Ashkahn: I mean there’s a lot of people taking surveys pre and post-float. There is more recent stuff where they’re taking FMRI scans pre and post-float.
Graham: And even basic physiological tasks doing those pre and post-float. Obviously getting EEGs and stuff like that pre and post is so much easier than getting it mid-float.
Ashkahn: Right, and what was the deal with the cortisol studies back in the day, when Tom Fine and John were doing? They were taking blood samples-
Graham: They were talking some mid-float-
Ashkahn: While they were doing the same thing.
Graham: Yeah, that’s the arm hole thing. Yeah.
Ashkahn: So they’re taking blood as well, actual blood samples.
Graham: Which just sounds like if you’re testing a stress response, you’re in the middle of a float sticking out your arm and having blood taken just sounds-
Ashkahn: Yeah, you can’t see what’s happening. You’re just sticking your arm out into a void and someone’s going to stab you with a needle.
Graham: It sounds like a pretty quick way, and they still showed greater relaxation during that that than normal. Like, a plus I guess, you know? Yeah, good luck with your studies. Definitely stay in touch. Send us your findings unless they’re illegitimate, in which case don’t include us in any further correspondence we don’t want to know about.
Ashkahn: You’ll probably see it on the news.
Graham: La-la-la-la. But thank you for the question. This is a really fun one to get and answer.
Ashkahn: If you have other questions just like this one, or possibly more sane, go to FloatTank-
Graham: If we don’t question your sanity-
Ashkahn: We don’t question your sanity. We don’t question your sanity.
Graham: Yeah.
Ashkahn: That much. So go to FloatTankSolutions.com/podcast. Send in a question.
Graham: We can’t wait. We’re very excited over here.
Ashkahn: That’s right. All right, we’ll talk to you tomorrow.
Graham: Bye everyone.
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Graham and Jake take on talking about Tankless or “On Demand” water heaters today. They break down a lot of the benefits of them compared to storage water heaters like the fact that they provide a nearly limitless source of hot water, require less energy consumption, etc. They’re not perfect though, and any float center considering one should look closely on how best to implement them. Jake shares some of the pitfalls of them as well as how to maximize their usefulness.
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Construction to Make Your Life Easier – DSP 268
Graham and Jake cover a wide range of construction tips to make running a float center easier. Everything from making sure you have extra storage to installing mop closets with sinks in them for dealing with heavy duty chemicals.
The advice is pretty much a shotgun approach of tips, tricks, and hard lessons learned throughout the years.
Draining Float Tanks into Septic Systems – DSP 267
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Water treatment typically involves whole contained ecosystems and highly concentrated epsom salt water can impact that pretty drastically. The guys provide good tips for each type of system and what to be prepared for if you’re operating in a rural area with a septic system.
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Post-Conference Ashkahn is still out of the recording studio, but fortunately Jake is keeping Graham company in there.
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Latest Blog Posts
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #28
Home sweet home! After so many months on the road, it was strange being back here in Portland. We were exhausted, excited, and a little travel weary. The first night back, I slept in my own bed for the first time in three months and the world just melted away.
Having travelled across the United States, I’m reminded of how insular Portland is. We are aggressively fixated on keeping things local. Local beer, ketchup, bikes, pet food, pillows, phone cases… it’s part of our charm. We want to reward people for living here and being a part of the community. It’s so pervasive that, after living here for so long, I kind of forgot that Secret Aardvark hot-sauce isn’t available everywhere, and that most cities don’t even recycle, let alone compost.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #27
Our northern neighbor – a sister city, of sorts – Seattle is the largest metropolitan area in the Pacific Northwest. It’s the land of Microsoft and Kurt Cobain, and the culture here embraces both simultaneously. It’s tech business professional in the front and rock n’ roll grunge in the back. This blend creates a perfect storm of high energy business life and high energy nightlife, making relaxation a valuable commodity. Floating helps fill the void left by nightmarish traffic and overcrowded restaurants.
Given that it’s so close to home, the float centers in Seattle are a lot more familiar to us. Our visits here were more like a high school reunion than they were like the first day of school. During some of our visits, we were picking up conversations right where we left them.
The Float Tour Blog Issue #26
Vancouver is the largest metropolitan area in Canada, and third largest on the West Coast. It’s a major hub for international trade, with one of the largest ports in the world, giving it a large migrant population, mainly from Asia, the Middle East, and Australia. It’s also been a long-time home to the Canadian film industry, and has even been nicknamed “North Hollywood.” Dozens of film and television productions from major studios film here every year.
Vancouver is very much an international city. It has large boroughs dedicated to varying cultures, including one of the largest Chinatowns in the world. The society here is more receptive to new ideas, always looking for the next big thing; it’s not surprising that floating has blown up in Vancouver as much as it has.
In the last 3 years, 10 float centers have opened up, most of them being larger 4–6 tank centers. The really interesting thing is how they all opened within the same short amount of time about 1 ½ to 2 years ago, within months of each other.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #25
We finally made it back to the West Coast! We went through the Canadian Rockies and were overwhelmed by the beauty of it all. We drove through hours and hours of winding mountain roads, fertile valleys, and tiny towns so picturesque they looked like movie sets. It was so captivating, in fact, I suspect Graham and Ashkahn may have secretly replaced themselves with robotic doppelgängers to hike throughout Banff.
This post will focus on the smaller communities in B.C. that are bringing floating to new people every day. We also get to visit Canadian manufacturer Pro Float. They’re relatively new to the scene, just opening up earlier this year – another exciting sign of the growth in the industry.
