Something in the world of floating have you stumped?
Show Highlights
Graham and Ashkahn discuss what causes that mysterious twitch people sometimes experience in the float tank, called the hypnic jerk (AKA hypnagogic jerk, sleep start, sleep twitch, myoclonic jerk, or night start ). While the guys offer up some interesting theories, there’s not a lot of research that’s been done on what causes these, so we’re left with theories, more or less.
Ashkahn thinks it has to do with pancakes.
Listen to Just the Audio
Transcription of this episode… (in case you prefer reading)
Ashkahn: Okay. Welcome, everybody.
Graham: Hey there. I am Graham.
Ashkahn: And I am Ashkahn.
Graham: And today’s question is, “what are the reasons behind sudden jerking/twitching in a tank?”
Ashkahn: Hmm.
Graham: The old tank twitch.
Ashkahn: The old tank twitch. Classic.
Graham: Classic.
Ashkahn: Super classic.
Graham: I was just going to say regular classic.
Ashkahn: No, this one I think officially has made it into the super classic category.
Graham: Were it a person, it might be a superhero, is that it?
Ashkahn: No, it doesn’t have any service to society, it’s just-
Graham: Cool. So, yeah. We don’t have a great answer, as me and Ashkahn.
Ashkahn: Yeah, yeah.
Graham: And that’s because the world doesn’t have a great answer.
Ashkahn: I have some ideas. I got some ideas.
Graham: Think of this though not as- what, what ideas do you have?
Ashkahn: So I haven’t really looked into this at all, but, you know, I have some thoughts.
Graham: Okay, great. Yeah, I’m ready to hear them. I’ve looked into it quite a bit, so.
Ashkahn: So.
Graham: Wrong. So let’s start with what they’re actually called.
Ashkahn: Okay.
Graham: Do you have ideas on that?
Ashkahn: Yeah, yeah. Tank twitch I think is one name that people call them.
Graham: Hypnic jerks is the actual kind of classic name for this, or hypnagogic jerks, or tank twitches in certain circles.
Ashkahn: Certain circles. And they happen all the time. I mean, people experience this while they sleep, too, right? It’s not just a float tank thing.
Graham: They actually experience it when they don’t sleep, as well.
Ashkahn: You just twitch when you’re awake?
Graham: Yeah.
Ashkahn: Oh.
Graham: About one to two times an hour in old age, and about five to seven times per hour if you’re in the under 10 sort of range.
Ashkahn: You really did look into this.
Graham: I mean, it’s something that interested me like three years ago, so I kind of dug deep, yeah. Here, go on, what are your theories?
Ashkahn: So my theories are, you know, sometimes-
Graham: Wrong. No, sorry, go ahead. Go ahead.
Ashkahn: I was just going to say it’s very common to dream about cooking pancakes, and so kind of that motion where you flip a pancake in a pan, that’s very similar to the twitch that people have inside of float tanks, so I think most researchers say that that’s the most, that’s the strongest theory I think we have.
Graham: The spatula embodiment theory.
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Where your body is actually the spatula that you’re-
Ashkahn: Yeah. And it’s just, it’s, you know, it’s a form of how we have empathy with other inanimate objects.
Graham: But I mean, I don’t know if I have anything to add.
Ashkahn: Here’s what I’ve actually heard. Here’s actually what I heard, is that some people think it maybe has to do with us being monkeys and used to sleeping in trees, right. Something about twitching, it kind of goes with that falling feeling, because there’s something about falling out of a tree. Right?
Graham: Sure, that does sound like something that someone would say.
Ashkahn: Yeah, that’s an actual, that’s a thing I read on the internet, so.
Graham: Wikipedia, or, where did you get that one?
Ashkahn: I don’t think it was Wikipedia, I think it was just some random internet site.
Graham: Way less, way less qualified than Wikipedia.
Ashkahn: Yeah, it was right below the spatula thing.
Graham: So basically, we don’t, like, actually Ashkahn’s answers are about as close as we’ve gotten to a lot of this stuff, right? There’s a lot of theories out there. We don’t really know why they happen in regular life. For kind of happening as we’re falling asleep or different times, as we’re getting relaxed, things like that. It does seem to happen when we’re a little more agitated, you know, like if we’ve been drinking caffeine, if we’re worked up, things like that, which is interesting, almost just kind of your autonomic nervous system, just a little bit more excited, I guess, makes them a little bit more likely to occur, but that’s only in some people. There’s not a direct correlation across everyone and certain indicators.
Again, we don’t even know why this happens to regular people who are laying in bed, or to people kind of throughout the day, or for people who are in the tank. In the tank, I have this feeling that we notice it more. You know, like, we’re used to it when it happens in our bed, and also our bed doesn’t splash when we jerk. So I wouldn’t be surprised-
Ashkahn: Unless you have a water bed.
Graham: Even then, you’re not in the water, right, it’s the bed is just kind of surrounded.
Ashkahn: You should see my water bed.
Here’s the other thing-
Graham: Let me finish what I’m saying, I let you finish your crazy theories, right?
All right, so, so that, I mean, but that is, right? I think that when we’re in the float tank, these jerks are actually very likely to be happening with the same frequencies when we’re in bed or even not in bed and kind of just going through our daily life, and I think during the middle of the day when they happen, we just don’t even really notice them, because we’re so distracted by whatever we’re doing and other things going on, and when we’re really not doing anything laying in bed, we can be a little more aware of when they’re occurring, like when we’re falling asleep.
And then when we’re in the tank, it’s like you jerk your arm, and it makes a noise and there’s water splashing when there was nothing else going on, so I almost think, my personal theory to add to Ashkahn’s eloquent theories that he put forward earlier, is just that we notice them more, like that it doesn’t even necessarily happen more in the float tank, but we’re more aware of them, just because it’s a different environment, and that medium is more likely to make the jerks more noticeable.
Ashkahn: Well, so I specifically associate these with the kind of falling asleep stage, you know what I mean? These are the most prevalent to me and I feel like when you talk to people they’re mostly associated with specifically that moment, like, you know, you don’t really hear about people talking about them a lot while they’re awake. You don’t really, I guess, notice them or have people talking about their significant others or something twitching while they’re deep in REM sleep or something, right? This to me is very tied into that kind of in between, not REM, kind of falling asleep sort of stage. And so I’ve always thought they’re specifically prevalent in float tanks because we’re, you’re kind of very much in that state in a float tank for prolonged periods of time. You’re not hitting those REM cycles. You’re not in that kind of fully awake, conscious state. You’re specifically in that same state that I feel like this is the majority of times this happens to me in my life is specifically that, that little kind of subsection of consciousness.
Graham: For sure and I mean, it makes sense. Our body releases chemicals that paralyze us during our actual sleep, right, so we’re not actually wandering around as we’re having dreams and things like that, so I think a lot of the kind of involuntary muscle action happens before that kicks in and before we get into the REM sleep cycles. But I mean, there are also cases where if that messes up, then you will jerk in the middle of the night during your sleep. Or maybe you’ve had a nightmare and you’ve woken up and you’re actually kind of like twisted in the sheets and stuff like that, and it’s because your body is kind of pushing past those chemical releases and thinks that things are real and feels the need to struggle against them or something, you know.
And, all of this, we’re saying not as scientists or as doctors, so definitely keep that in mind, you know, and again, a lot of these are theories and information that we’re still developing, even in relation to the chemicals that do seem to cause sleep paralysis, we don’t really know what they are. We’re just kind of starting to discover what receptors are, are really doing that, and what we need to block, and a lot of that research is even new and forthcoming, so.
If you do look up hypnic jerk, like even just knowing the name of what you’re looking into here will help you do a lot of your own research and dig into what’s going on. But as you look into it, don’t be surprised if you start hitting a lot of contradictory information, and I would really encourage you to look for the more scientific studies on this, rather than just forums where people are talking about them or something like that, because a lot of people have opinions, and just like me and Ashkahn, a lot of us are not actual professional scientists and maybe our opinions shouldn’t be trusted as much as the people who are really doing the research out there.
Ashkahn: And it certainly doesn’t seem like an issue. Like, you know, I think this has been happening to humans for quite a long time.
Graham: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You’re not a freak if you twitch in the float tank. It’s totally normal. I mean, almost anyone, like, our-
Ashkahn: I don’t think the float tank is doing anything to make this happen to people or anything like that.
Graham: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that’s another thing that I wanted to get across is this does happen all the time, you know, it’s not unique to the float tank.
Ashkahn: Oh yeah, super, one of the most I think commonly shared float experiences.
Graham: Yeah, for sure. I know no one who’s been a long-term floater who doesn’t have this, so again, you’re not weird, this is something that happens, and it happens outside of the float tank as well.
Ashkahn: I have heard that sometimes people go in that have pretty serious physical pain or actual issues from some sort of injury or something like that, or some sort of actual kind of a hereditary disability or something, but people in those sorts of states where their body is used to being maybe very contorted, I’ve heard things where they say they have a huge amount of twitching that happens in the float tank. This is just anecdotally, for people who float at our place and come out and like, you know, people who’ve actually had to have someone assist them getting in and out of the float tank, that kind of level of physical trauma, have come out sometimes and then more than once that they told me that they were just in there and had, you know, prolonged and like large periods of twitching in their body.
Graham: Yeah, so what’s going on there? I have no idea. Right? I can come up with a bunch of theories.
Ashkahn: Probably something different. They weren’t saying it was, you know, as they were drifting off or anything like that. It might be a completely different phenomena.
Graham: Sure, maybe their ape ancestors lived in trees for longer. They’re just a little more sensitive to it, you know?
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Cool, well, thanks for the good question on this one. I always like saying that I don’t really know anything, so this provided ample opportunity for that.
Ashkahn: If you guys have other questions, you can go to floattanksolutions.com/podcast.
Graham: And, yeah, we’ll talk to you again tomorrow.
Ashkahn: Yeah. All right. Bye, everyone.
Recent Podcast Episodes
Are Tankless Water Heaters the Best? – DSP 270
Graham and Jake take on talking about Tankless or “On Demand” water heaters today. They break down a lot of the benefits of them compared to storage water heaters like the fact that they provide a nearly limitless source of hot water, require less energy consumption, etc. They’re not perfect though, and any float center considering one should look closely on how best to implement them. Jake shares some of the pitfalls of them as well as how to maximize their usefulness.
Should Float Centers use Light or Heavy Gauge Studs? – DSP 269
Still no Ashkahn today. He’s taking a couple of post-conference days to himself.
Jake and Graham are on the scene though to answer construction questions, though. Even the straight forward ones, like today. Jake informs us which to choose when doing construction, light or heavy gauge studs when constructing a float center, while getting a little sidetracked when comparing wooden and metal studs.
Construction to Make Your Life Easier – DSP 268
Graham and Jake cover a wide range of construction tips to make running a float center easier. Everything from making sure you have extra storage to installing mop closets with sinks in them for dealing with heavy duty chemicals.
The advice is pretty much a shotgun approach of tips, tricks, and hard lessons learned throughout the years.
Draining Float Tanks into Septic Systems – DSP 267
Graham and Jake tackle the difficulties of draining float tanks and how that process can differ based on different municipalities, different water treatment systems, or whether you’re using a septic system or not.
Water treatment typically involves whole contained ecosystems and highly concentrated epsom salt water can impact that pretty drastically. The guys provide good tips for each type of system and what to be prepared for if you’re operating in a rural area with a septic system.
The Difference Between STC and Decibels – DSP 266
Post-Conference Ashkahn is still out of the recording studio, but fortunately Jake is keeping Graham company in there.
Graham and Jake break down the differences between decibels and STC ratings, two very important to understand when figuring out soundproofing. There’s a lot to digest in this episode, but fortunately the guys keep it easy to understand by providing a broad level overview of the different concepts.
Latest Blog Posts
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #28
Home sweet home! After so many months on the road, it was strange being back here in Portland. We were exhausted, excited, and a little travel weary. The first night back, I slept in my own bed for the first time in three months and the world just melted away.
Having travelled across the United States, I’m reminded of how insular Portland is. We are aggressively fixated on keeping things local. Local beer, ketchup, bikes, pet food, pillows, phone cases… it’s part of our charm. We want to reward people for living here and being a part of the community. It’s so pervasive that, after living here for so long, I kind of forgot that Secret Aardvark hot-sauce isn’t available everywhere, and that most cities don’t even recycle, let alone compost.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #27
Our northern neighbor – a sister city, of sorts – Seattle is the largest metropolitan area in the Pacific Northwest. It’s the land of Microsoft and Kurt Cobain, and the culture here embraces both simultaneously. It’s tech business professional in the front and rock n’ roll grunge in the back. This blend creates a perfect storm of high energy business life and high energy nightlife, making relaxation a valuable commodity. Floating helps fill the void left by nightmarish traffic and overcrowded restaurants.
Given that it’s so close to home, the float centers in Seattle are a lot more familiar to us. Our visits here were more like a high school reunion than they were like the first day of school. During some of our visits, we were picking up conversations right where we left them.
The Float Tour Blog Issue #26
Vancouver is the largest metropolitan area in Canada, and third largest on the West Coast. It’s a major hub for international trade, with one of the largest ports in the world, giving it a large migrant population, mainly from Asia, the Middle East, and Australia. It’s also been a long-time home to the Canadian film industry, and has even been nicknamed “North Hollywood.” Dozens of film and television productions from major studios film here every year.
Vancouver is very much an international city. It has large boroughs dedicated to varying cultures, including one of the largest Chinatowns in the world. The society here is more receptive to new ideas, always looking for the next big thing; it’s not surprising that floating has blown up in Vancouver as much as it has.
In the last 3 years, 10 float centers have opened up, most of them being larger 4–6 tank centers. The really interesting thing is how they all opened within the same short amount of time about 1 ½ to 2 years ago, within months of each other.
The Float Tour Blog – Issue #25
We finally made it back to the West Coast! We went through the Canadian Rockies and were overwhelmed by the beauty of it all. We drove through hours and hours of winding mountain roads, fertile valleys, and tiny towns so picturesque they looked like movie sets. It was so captivating, in fact, I suspect Graham and Ashkahn may have secretly replaced themselves with robotic doppelgängers to hike throughout Banff.
This post will focus on the smaller communities in B.C. that are bringing floating to new people every day. We also get to visit Canadian manufacturer Pro Float. They’re relatively new to the scene, just opening up earlier this year – another exciting sign of the growth in the industry.