Something in the world of floating have you stumped?
Show Highlights
The float world is a confusing place. The industry is known to disagree on construction materials, ideal float techniques or frequency, and even the benefits of using a float tank. How does anyone in the float industry know who to trust?
Graham and Ashkahn discuss why the industry often feels like it’s full of misinformation and how it compares to other industries. They also offer solid advice on how to find the best information available.
Listen to Just the Audio
Transcription of this episode… (in case you prefer reading)
Ashkahn: All right. Welcome everybody.
Graham: Hey there.
Ashkahn: This is is the Daily Solutions podcast.
Graham: This is the Daily Solutions podcast.
Ashkahn: In case you were confused.
Graham: Yep. Roll your own-
Ashkahn: And clicked the wrong link-
Graham: saving rolls over there if you have your D20s handy. I’m Graham.
Ashkahn: And I’m Ashkahn.
Graham: And today’s question is, “I have heard conflicting information from different people in the industry sometimes about what seemed like very simple things. How do I know who to trust?”
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Well, definitely don’t trust us.
Ashkahn: Yeah, that’d be your first mistake.
Graham: Yeah, probably-
Ashkahn: So whatever we tell you here you should believe with a certain amount of a hesitance. Yeah, the world is a complicated place.
Graham: It’s hard out there. It’s tricky.
Ashkahn: That’s the thing. Here’s basically the deal.
Graham: Yeah. No one knows anything about anything.
Ashkahn: Basically.
Graham: Even outside of our industry.
Ashkahn: Yeah. There’s not as much certainty and concrete truths in the world as you may think there are.
Graham: And I’m not even sure about that.
Ashkahn: So with floating, it’s been around for a while, but a lot of the questions that we have coming up around science and research and a lot especially about like sanitation and the equipment and stuff like that, these are tough questions to answer and they’re technical, and they involve chemistry and diseases and stuff like that-
Graham: And a math and writing.
Ashkahn: Yeah. We don’t know. There’s not really a lot of people out there who know a huge insane amount about this stuff because there’s just research that’s left to be done. We just haven’t run of the data and have answers to some of these questions. So with floating it’s like when you get to these kind of rough areas and difficult questions basically you’re at the edge of human knowledge. That’s it. You’ve made it as far as people know things in certain directions with flow tanks, which is pretty exciting. It’s one of the cool things about being in the float industry is you’re kind of like a pioneer. Everyone’s out there just pushing the edge of knowledge a little bit further.
Graham: I find it really cool. Yeah, and when we do run actual research experiments, we’re expanding the base of human knowledge. We’re discovering things that no one knew previously.
Ashkahn: But the frustrating part is sometimes you have real simple questions that just are basic things that you want to do on a daily basis in your float center, and the answers are really complicated, and no one really knows.
Graham: Yeah and you have to pay attention to two guys who podcast in their robes for answers, you know?
Ashkahn: That was your first mistake. So we start looking when we look at floating information, we try to look at other information out there. We look at a recreational water like pools and spas. We look at drinking water, we look at other just chemistry involving Epsom salt. We look at-
Graham: We look at microbes on Mars.
Ashkahn: Yeah, yeah. Literally that is in one of the referenced little analysis of float tank sanitation, and this stuff can get complicated, and it’s not just that we’re trying to translate knowledge from a different field into our own, which is certainly part of it. Part of it is also these other fields don’t have everything figured out. We when we learn about pool and spa stuff like we get to see where their edge of knowledge is too, and it’s closer than you may think.
Graham: That was the thing that really drove home how kind of in the dark we are with a lot of float tanks stuff because and I think in the back of my head before we started going to these multiple aquatic conferences per year and hearing different presentations I thought that as a species, as humans we had more knowledge about things as simple as water that we drink and bathe in, and instead presentations on this new research that’s just coming out where in my head I’m like, “Oh, I really would have thought that we’d have that figured out decades ago,” so yeah, as float tanks being so young and new. Is there that we’re so so far away from it and far away from having dozens and dozens of labs with huge millions of dollars budgets that are running research on these things yearly like pools have.
Ashkahn: In the last conference we were at there was a full day long presentation about basically UV used in pools and the interaction of UV and chlorine, and you would be surprised how much we’re still learning about how that works, and that’s something and we’ve been using chlorine for whatever, like over 100 years, and we’ve been using UV in pools with chlorine for a while and still this presenter up there was presenting fresh new data about the interactions of these things, and everyone was like learning for the first time. And these are like the heads of health departments around the country and in some cases from other countries in the world.
Graham: And you don’t get higher than the person presenting on UV at the time.
Ashkahn: We’ve seen talks about hydroxyl radicals where these people who are like the most knowledgeable people about these things are just saying literally conflicting information, opposite information from one another.
Graham: Yeah. Both PhD scientists, yeah, manufacturers versus scientists who are independent conflicting information it’s-
Ashkahn: And it’s complicated. When we were learning about the chlorine UV stuff, there’s hundreds and hundreds of chemical reactions that can happen when you start adding things like chlorine or when UV has it’s rays affecting different things that changes the molecular structure of things and that chlorine interacts with sweat, and makeup, and pharmaceutical drugs that are in our drinking water-
Graham: Vitamins that you would drink earlier that day.
Ashkahn: That gets puts into it, and we don’t know what all those things do where there’s a result of like 200 different molecules all of a sudden that are in a float tank or a pool or whatever, and we don’t know exactly what each of them is doing. It’s just the level of complexity that happens with some of this stuff goes up real fast.
Graham: And that’s just water sanitation. You start getting into construction and best setups and soundproofing and things like that. There’s only so many systems that you can say for certain how soundproof they are, and even then, if anything is done slightly off in your construction, that can really affect it. There’s so many unknowns, not just the water chemistry is a perfect acute example of how it feels to be on the edge of understanding for all these other aspects too like down to marketing, best ways to fill float centers as a kind of new and thriving industry. We’re also on the edges of understanding what goes into just filling up our tanks and being successful and having longevity, and some of these models that we’re testing we won’t really see how many centers either succeed or don’t succeed for-
Ashkahn: Or what construction materials will hold up for 10 years instead of two.
Graham: Yeah. We’re just nearing the year eight, so if things break down after 10 years and don’t show signs of it beforehand, we don’t even know yet. You know?
Ashkahn: Yeah. It’s just like the more we’ve learned about things, the more I think we’ve realized that the world is a nuanced place. If you’re looking at information, if someone’s telling you something, if it sounds really simple and clear cut and very basic, that should be a warning sign to you. That’s what I’ve learned. If anything just sounds real straightforward, probably there’s more to the picture there and you’re only getting a very simplified part of the story and that’s just the case with all this stuff. There’s just nuance, and asterisks, and exceptions and everything is within the realm of the context around it. It’s very hard to just say things in very concrete simple terms.
Graham: Yeah, and some things are true. There are things that are logically true in the world. They call them on a priori truths. Two plus two equals four. But as our good friend, the philosopher David Hume said, “Those are few and far between” and much more common is just truth we have to derive from whatever we see and witness around us, the environment, and try to put them together, and so again, I just wanted to bring it back to it’s not just float tanks that are a kind of nebulous and don’t have a lot of certainty around them it’s the entire universe, just especially float tanks. In a confusing universe they’re especially confusing.
Ashkahn: So just be careful out there. Keep a skeptic’s eye on where, especially for things like The Float Collective or these other online forums. It’s really easy for information to be-
Graham: For podcasts that are out there.
Ashkahn: Podcasts. We’re a very tight knit community, and so information can get bounced around and parroted very, very easily here because we’re really good at-
Graham: Oh, parroted. I thought you said parodied.
Ashkahn: Parodied? So just because you read something online or read it multiple times, it doesn’t mean that a bunch of people aren’t just saying it because they read it a month ago from someone who said something that may or may not have been totally educated on it.
Graham: Yeah, or something they may have heard from a scientists who also didn’t have the full story or know what they were talking about. Stuff gets passed down and misinformation from the highest levels. There are scientific articles out there that have been keystones of the kind of different progress in fields that are now being unable to be replicated out there. Right?
Ashkahn: Yeah.
Graham: Science makes all kinds of mistakes.
Ashkahn: There’s that big replication project that happened, and they found that, it what was like 40% of their these huge important papers couldn’t be replicated. So yeah, we have problems with solid truth way, way high up the chain.
Graham: Confusing universe. Especially confusing float tank universe. So yeah, I’d say, how do you know who to trust? No one. Do your own thinking.
Ashkahn: Build a bunker. Just get down in there. Get some canned food.
Graham: Yeah, and if you do want to know the truth about anything else, send in your own questions to floattanksolutions.com/podcast, and we’ll tell you how it is.
Ashkahn: Yeah. Man, good luck out there.
Graham: Yeah. Be Good. Be Good.
Recent Podcast Episodes
When DON’T you Feel Like Floating? – DSP 275
Graham has Juliet on the podcast today since Ashkahn is doing some post-Conference traveling.
The duo talks about times when floating just doesn’t feel like a good idea, which is something they have a bit of disagreement about. Juliet shares her experiences being cautious of her experiences in the tank and how she tends to have to be more mindful of when she floats.
How do you Handle Changing Memberships? – DSP 274
This year at the Float Conference, Derek hosted a marketing forum and took questions that he wanted to share with everyone here.
This episode focuses on how Float On handles memberships, including tiered memberships and how to gracefully transition from one type of membership to another.
Are Vapor Barriers a Good Idea for Float Centers? – DSP 273
You can tell when Graham starts to miss Ashkahn when he makes a soundboard made up of sound clips from previous episodes just to have Ashkahn do another intro.
Jake and Graham break down barriers in this episode. Vapor barriers, that is. These tools are a little confusing in the construction world and their efficacy is hotly debated in just regular construction, never mind the demands that a float center has, especially in regards to moisture protection. Fortunately, Graham and Jake know a thing or two about a thing or two and explain what vapor barriers are, how they work, and what the source of contention is.
What to Consider with Plumbing in a New Float Center – DSP 272
Graham and Jake talk about the confusing world of plumbing for your float center. There are any number of unpleasant surprises that can come about when planning the water lines to showers, getting floor drains in place, and making sure everything lines up how it’s supposed to. If the sewer main is too deep or not where you think it is, it can add a significant amount of cost to your build out just to get floor drains installed. Fortunately, the guys have some useful tricks to help mitigate costs and plan accordingly.
Should I use Spray-in Insulation for my Float Center? – DSP 271
Graham and Jake are still in a sans Ashkahn world at Daily Solutions, but they’re not letting it harsh their mellow.
The guys are talking about the different types of spray-in insulation today. It’s a pretty common material in construction and it can be a fantastic insulator for float centers, if you get the right type.
Jake and Graham go over the differences between open cell and closed cell insulation and why, specifically, float centers should avoid open cell insulation. They also provide some excellent pointers on the materials themselves and good conversations to have with a contractor regarding insulation.
Latest Blog Posts
Oh, the Questions You’ll Hear!
When you run a float tank center, you’re going to get asked a lot of questions. Do I float naked? Can I drown? Is this sanitary? Many of these are easy to answer: It’s recommended. Not without a conscious, and determined effort. Yes! There are some questions, however,...
Happy TANKSgiving (Giving Gifts to Monthly Members)
Monthly memberships are an important way to ensure that your float tank center has a consistent, if not dependable, amount of business.
While pricing structures for memberships vary widely across the industry, we’re focusing less on the strategy of what to charge and looking more at the benefits we’re actually offering. Once we’ve established a solid offering, then we can revisit pricing.
Running a successful monthly membership program takes more than just charging customers and making sure they use their credits. With a little creativity, we can find ways to increase engagement.
Your Flow Meter May Be Inaccurate (and what to do about it)
Float tanks tend to use a lot of parts borrowed from the pool and spa industry and, whenever that happens, it’s always important to question whether that pool part works accurately with our salt water solution. We’ve recently gained some insight into that question on...
The Float Tour Blog Roundup!
The following is our collection of links to the all of the Float Tour blogs. My chronicling of our adventure, highlighting all of you out there.
Thank you for the memories.
